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Importing your UT AI into FSX

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John Goodwin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Goodwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Importing your UT AI into FSX
    Posted: October-05-2006 at 4:34am

This is based on the method I have used to import UT and other AI into the FSX Demo.

There does seem to be a few texture issues with the AI aircraft, but I am unsure if this was caused by the demo version of FSX, the issues were.

  • Some textures seemed to have a see thru quality, this was not a problem at distance but up close in certain lighting you could see thru the aircrat.
  • Some aircraft seemed to not appear correctly at night, again only when viewed from up close.

The method to import is very straight forward BUT does require some advance planning if you are going to un-install FS9 then install FSX. The procedure is the same if you are going to keep FS9 and FSX on the same machine.

If you are going to un-install FS9 then you must make a copy of the following files.

  1. ALL your AI AIRCRAFT files in Flight Simulator\Aircraft\
  2. ALL your AFCAD files in Flight Simulator\Add0n Scenery\Scenery\
  3. ALL the night light masks in Flight Simulator\Textures. These file are named ****_l.bmp.
  4. ALL your traffic.bgl files for AI Traffic in Flight Simulator\Scenery\World\Scenery.

The method is now identical for the un-installed FS9 and FS9 being still in place.

  1. COPY ALL your AI AIRCRAFT files in Flight Simulator\Aircraft\ (or saved location) to FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes
  2. Until we can test a bit I would not copy your AFCAD files
  3. COPY ALL the night light masks in Flight Simulator\Textures(or saved location) to FSX\Texture.
  4. ALL your traffic.bgl files for AI Traffic in Flight Simulator\Scenery\World\Scenery(or saved location)  to FSX \Scenery\World\Scenery

NOTE:- At this time PalmSpotter and TCAS WILL NOT work in FSX

Any suggestions on what elese is needed please add them in to the tread.

 

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RFields View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RFields Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2006 at 11:16am

Some other items:

FSX parking is different than FS2004 in that model radius is apparently not used to determine the size of the AI aircraft. The wing_span= value in the airplane_geometry section of the aircraft.cfg  is apparently used. This value has to be in feet - it is apparently divided in half and rounded up to the next whole meter.

Watch for overlapping wingtips - and that is the value to change to spread the planes apart a bit. (This is expecially bad with the AIA B747's)

Personally I put my AI aircraft into a different folder than the flyable aircraft in FSX - you can put the folder anwhere - but will need to edit the FSX.CFG file main section to add a new entry. I use:

SimObjectPaths.6=SimObjects\AI_Aircraft

The default Gate parking spot sizes have changed - they are:

Gate Small - 18M

Gate Medium - 23M

Gate Heavy - 36M

Ramp parking spots appear to remain the same size:

Small GA - 10M

Medium GA - 14M

Large GA - 18M

Cargo - 50M

I have not found any of the following parking types in the default airport:

Ramp (Mistakenly called Unknown by AFCAD)

Mil_Cargo

Mil_Combat

Dock

There is a new parking spot type - Fuel Box

The default aircraft sizes are:

B744 - 33M
A321 - 18M
B738 - 18M
MD80 - 17M
DH8A - 13M
CRJ700 - 12M
B350 - 9M
C208 - 8M
LJ45 - 7M
Maule - 6M
C172 - 6M
M20T - 6M
BE58 - 6M
ARCHER - 5M

Heavy Gate spots draw lines on the apron around an outline of the aircraft.

Overlapping parking spots look really bad.

Pushback tugs, luggage loaders and baggage carts appear at the edge of Gate parking spots at the highest scenery density levels.

Using FS2004 AFCAD files is not a good option. While they will work after a fashion - there are many problems created by the header which AFCAD uses to delete the default aprons, comm frequencies, helipads, runways, start locations and taxiway. This can cause updates to FSX data to be ignored, AI aircraft to fail to contact the correct frequency and problems with taxi behavior.

There will be airports where there is no traffic because the FS2004 ICAO codes/ airports.txt - does not match the approx 2700 changes in FSX.

This will be especially evident in Indonesia where the vast majority of the airports were given new ICAO codes in Oct 2004. Those changes are in FSX.

In case you are wondering, the ACES team has reported that the FSX airport and approach data date was April 2005. Because of the way the world was redesigned and things had to be redone, this data was required much earlier in the development process than in past versions of FS.

Lastly, any strange or unusual behavior you see in FSX should not be considered a "bug" but a result of using an FS2004 product in FSX.

Finding ways to resolve the issues will be a challenge - but people are working on developing replacements for TrafficTools and AFCAD with FSX compliant tools.

Reggie Fields, KADS, Addison, Texas, USA
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RFields View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RFields Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2006 at 11:19am

PS - So of us are working on a:

FSX Airports.txt file

and a comparison spreadsheet to show airports:

FS2004 airports removed from FSX

FSX new airports

FS2004 airports with new designator codes in FSX

Reggie Fields, KADS, Addison, Texas, USA
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John Goodwin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Goodwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2006 at 5:20pm

Reggie

hanks for that imput, as you can see guys, it will take some time to resolve these issues....so please be patient I am sure we will get there in the end..

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freelancer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freelancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-10-2006 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by RFields RFields wrote:

Watch for overlapping wingtips - and that is the value to change to spread the planes apart a bit. (This is expecially bad with the AIA B747's)

Personally I put my AI aircraft into a different folder than the flyable aircraft in FSX - you can put the folder anwhere - but will need to edit the FSX.CFG file main section to add a new entry.

Finding ways to resolve the issues will be a challenge - but people are working on developing replacements for TrafficTools and AFCAD with FSX compliant tools.

Reggie,

Thanks for the info.  I have a couple of questions about these comments.

  1. Could you clarify a little bit about the AIA 747's?
  2. Are there any benefits from keeping your AI seperate from the flyable aircraft, other than easier to keep track of?
  3. Has anybody seen the SDK's yet or are they still on hold (so to speak) until the final release?
Mark
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ralphmouth View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ralphmouth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-11-2006 at 12:22am
2 questions please-


1) Can I just install 'UT' new into FSX ??

2) Will you be making a new version for FSX ?
   Is so when could it be available ?
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apwright View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote apwright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-11-2006 at 12:31am

Thanks for the info, Reggie (and John!),
The Afcad problem sounds a bit daunting, but it could've been worse!

It's good to know that people are already working on FSX versions of TTools and Afcad.
Reggie's airports list will be extremely useful - I hope it will be made publically available! Sounds like a lot of airport assignments will have to be changed in UT. If you need any help, Reggie, just drop me a line.

Mark, I understood that the SDKs are included with the Deluxe version, so some lucky people have got them already! Can't confirm, because I can't get my copy til Friday.

Ralphmouth, welcome to the forums!Smile
1) I very much doubt it, because the installer is not programmed to recognise FSX.
2) Let's hope so!

Regards,
Adrian
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RFields View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RFields Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-11-2006 at 10:12am

1. AIA B747's - the aircraft.cfg file has the wing_span= value of 126.46 feet - which translates into a half wing_span value of 63.23 feet - a parking radius of 20M.

At EGLL with a FS2004 AFCAD the AIA B747 parks in 22M spots and the wings overlap at the outboard engine.

This value was used in creating the flight dynamics of the aircraft for FS2004. I have not observed any behavior changes since modifying that value to a realistic 211.4 feet - which translates into a 33M parking radius.

This aircraft was easily identifiable and obvious that something was not working correctly.

It is probably not the only aircraft with a value which is different from the real aircraft measurements.

2. Separate folder - I'd have loved the ability to keep AI and flyable aircraft separate in previous versions of FS. But I've also made a separate folder for FS2004 flyable aircraft. I'm trying to keep FS2004 and FSX aircraft in separate places - so I can find them and know what is legacy and what is FSX ready. Just a personal preference.

3. I have the SDK's from the fileplanet beta, and from the retail version - so far they appear identical. The inclusion of the SDK's in the Deluxe version presents an ethical issue about access.

With previous versions of FS - I'd recommend people download the SDK's from the MS site. I hope they are going to be available on the MSFS site eventually. It is inappropriate, and a violation of the EULA, for me to distribute them to other people.

4. Airport lists will be out publicly as soon as we can verify / finish them.

I have obtained the retail version of FSX - and we are running a check of the airports dump from the TrafficToolbox SDK against the list we pulled from the file planet beta.

Reggie Fields, KADS, Addison, Texas, USA
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John Goodwin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Goodwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-11-2006 at 5:14pm

Ralphmouth.

  1. No, at this time you can not install directly into FSX
  2. I have no news on if/when a new version or update of UT will be available
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ruahrc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-12-2006 at 10:32pm
Just would like to add my bid for support on UT for FSX. Maybe an upgrade would not make sense but rather an entirely new product (UT2 or something). Would definitely be justified if you charged for the update/new version.

The thought of having to use some "representative traffic" scheme like MyTraffic or Traffic2005 is just unthinkable. :) Real world schedules all the way!

Ruahrc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FlyingFinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-13-2006 at 5:38am

Originally posted by Ruahrc Ruahrc wrote:


The thought of having to use some "representative traffic" scheme like MyTraffic or Traffic2005 is just unthinkable. :) Real world schedules all the way!

Ruahrc

I agree. Absolutely unthinkable!Big%20smile

Jesse, EFHK
Thank you for flying Finnair!
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apwright View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote apwright Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-13-2006 at 6:01am

If there's going to be a UT Mk.II for FSX, several hundred Afcad files are going to have to be rewritten (as well as everything else).

Put me down for a few dozen!

Of course, a new Afcad editor program will have to be invented first...

Regards,
Adrian
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John Goodwin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Goodwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-13-2006 at 8:22pm

Here is a quick shot of a push back of an AI, YES, AI Aircraft in FSX. Note the push back truck!!

I have used the procedure outlined above, but as yet have not re-set the radius setting to half span, nor have I imported any AFCADs into FSX.

The few place I have been too seem to have lots more parking than in FS9 so parking spaces should not be an issue.

On performance I am using a

  • Intel Pentium 4 CPU 3.60 Ghz
  • 2.00 GB of RAM
  • Radeon X850XT Graphics card

In general my FPS have taken quite a hit with 100% UT traffic, but althought the FPS are down, I find the simulator runs very smoothly with none of the jerking as was seen in FS9. I have got all the SCENERY sliders at 100% with the exception of Autogen which is set at 0%. To be honest I am not overly impressed with the Autogen objects and textures.

Using the default VC cockpits I also take quite a heavy FPS hit but again the sim runs very smoothly, although the gauge upadte rate is a bit jerky.

To be honest, until I get used to the ground textures and FPS, I think FS9 with Flight 1 Ground Environment and Flight Environment install may be slightly better than FSX

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freelancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-15-2006 at 10:18am

Reggie,

Thanks for the explanation.  I wasn't going to ask for the SDK's, I was just curious if they were included with the beta so that someone would be able to get a start on an AFCAD type program.

Adrian,

The SDK's being included with the deluxe version is one of the reasons I'm getting that one.  As of now, I have to wait until Tues. to get a copy (unless I can bribe a salesperson at a retail storeLOL).

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Murray_CYHZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-15-2006 at 9:16pm

Thank you Mr. Goodwin for this information. I have followed your procedure and everything is working very well.

Note of interest:

Some of my AI aircraft.cfg files had within them, duplicate entrees. I found this out from some messages that appeared when I started FSX after porting UT. I simply read each message (four of them) and removed the duplicate entrees. All is well now.

Final note:

Please develop an update/upgrade/ or totaly new UT for FSX. I have looked very closely over the years at the competition and have stuck with UT (and the updated schedules).  If you do develop a new version, please consider adding military traffic.

Thanks!

Murray Wheten

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RMann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2006 at 11:04am
Warren, I have the same duplicate message you do it appears. but I can't locate duplicate aircraft.cfg entries.  Can you advise me what files you deleted?  I have only 1 aircraft.cfg in the four files, at least that I can see.

Thanks

Rod Mann
CYYJ
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freelancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-16-2006 at 3:43pm

Rod,

When you fire up FSX and get the duplicate title messages, look at each one and write the info down.  It will tell you the title and which aircraft folder it is in.  Go to that aircraft folder and open the aircraft.cfg with notepad and search by the title given in the message.  If they are the same paint scheme, but different reg #'s, add the reg # to the end of the title.  One thing I'm guilty of is if there is no fltsim entry included with a texture, I will copy the one before it and sometimes forget to change the title= line.

For example, I have a duplicate entry for the following,

title=AIA B743_PW Corsair

Since they are the same paint (well sort of) with different reg #'s I have changed them to the following,

title=AIA B743_PW Corsair F-GSEX

title=AIA B743_PW Corsair F-GSKY

Just remember to reassign the ones you changed and recompile after making any changes.

Hope this helps.

Mark
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RMann View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RMann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-17-2006 at 11:40am
Smile
That did it and thanks very much.

Rod
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plainplane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2006 at 8:00pm

Will an update/new version cost more money? I just paid $40 not so long ago for the FS9 version.

Plainplane Smile

My favorite aircraft are made by Boeing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris Peschke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-22-2006 at 6:35am

Here's a quick question, has anyone moved the voicepacks over to FSX and were there any issues?

Cheers

Chris

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-22-2006 at 7:23am

Chris,

I've moved the voicepacks and (so far) there are no issues.

Everything seems to work just fine.

 

Fred

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CAL2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-27-2006 at 9:19pm

Regarding duplicate titles. We (ActiveSky 6.5 users) have discovered that not repairing the duplicate titles will cause ActiveSky 6.5 not to communicate with FSX. Why? I have no idea. But several of us were having problems with AS 6.5 not sending the weather to FSX. Upon repairing the duplicate titles, AS6.5 now works properly. So, if you intend to use ActiveSky 6.5, don't ignore the duplicate title message.

John

John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-28-2006 at 5:59am

Originally posted by RFields RFields wrote:

The wing_span= value in the airplane_geometry section of the aircraft.cfg  is apparently used. This value has to be in feet - it is apparently divided in half and rounded up to the next whole meter.

Apologies for seeming to be a bit on the dense side (nothing new there then) but can I seek clarification on Reggies' post.

What sort of calculation do I need to go through.  Do I convert the figure in the wing_span= value to metres - divide by 2 and then convert back to feet?

As an example, in my AIA_747_400_GE aircraft.cfg, the entry is:

wing_span = 126.46

presumably feet - which converts to 38.545 metres

divide by 2 (19.2725) and round up to 20 metres makes 65.617 feet

Thanks in advance for any guidance you can give me on this.

Graham
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freelancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-28-2006 at 9:15am

Graham,

If (and that's a big if) I understand this, you would change the wing_span=126.46 to wing_span=211.4 in the aircraft.cfg and FSX will convert it for you.

Originally posted by RFields RFields wrote:

1. AIA B747's - the aircraft.cfg file has the wing_span= value of 126.46 feet - which translates into a half wing_span value of 63.23 feet - a parking radius of 20M.

At EGLL with a FS2004 AFCAD the AIA B747 parks in 22M spots and the wings overlap at the outboard engine.

This value was used in creating the flight dynamics of the aircraft for FS2004. I have not observed any behavior changes since modifying that value to a realistic 211.4 feet - which translates into a 33M parking radius.

This aircraft was easily identifiable and obvious that something was not working correctly.

It is probably not the only aircraft with a value which is different from the real aircraft measurements.

Mark
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Graham Jackson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-28-2006 at 10:26am

Hi Mark

Thanks mate - that almost makes sense to me now Confused - looks like some of my maths was not only tortuous but faulty to boot!

Graham
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Goodwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2006 at 4:42am
Be careful changing the "halfspan" value too high, it effects the way GSE vehicles move around the aircraft, it is better in FSX to keep the setting just enough to use the correct parking space than to set it to the correct aircraft "halfspan"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Graham Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2006 at 4:56am
Hmm - now I'm confused again.  Think I'll wait for someone to come up with the numbers Confused
Graham
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RFields Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2006 at 2:48pm

At this point I'm still dealing with default FSX parking spot sizes.

But I will begin to work with changing sizes soon.

First, we really need a table of wing_span= values - and one consideration needs to be the model size - not the real world aircraft size. There may be some differences.

As far as aircraft specific conversion factors - I cheat.

I'd take 211.4 feet - divide by 2 = 105.7 feet

Create a parking spot in AFCAD with 105.7 feet as the radius.

Change AFCAD back to show metric parking sizes - and that is 32.22 meters.

So B744 specific parking spots would be 33M

Yes, we need a table created.

Reggie Fields, KADS, Addison, Texas, USA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Goodwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2006 at 1:15am
Reggie making the half span too big will cause the GSE AI Vehicles to pass through other aircraft parked close by, try just using a generic size for the half span for each type of aircraft. Make this halfspan figure a little bit bigger than than the parking space you wish the aircraft to use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sddjd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-21-2007 at 12:20pm

Heres a strange behavior Im seeing after porting my traffic into FSX according to JGs instructions;  Im missing a significant portion of my AI aircraft in terms of appearances in FSX.  For example, one glaring omission is SWA.  Visits to any airport heavily serviced by that carrier lack any 737s in that livery.  Ive verified that its not just a case of the model not loading as I  see other paints of that aircraft. 

 

The only two possibilities Im considering are:

-I have my 734s in three separate aircraft folders due to the massive number of repaints (ie: ai737_400_1, _2, _3). 

-    Could FSX be missing these airlines somehow due to their being way down the list alphabetically?  For example, Alaska shows?

 

Has anyone experienced such behavior?  Perhaps FSX is simply suppressing the larger portion of the traffic file as part of its smoothing technique? Cool

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